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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 9, 2010 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

" As for preference+taste+opinion sounds like a recipe for "criticism" "

I guess so. I dunno, I really don't enjoy most classical music but that doesn't mean I don't recognize how great it is. Like I mentioned I don't really care for virtuoso look what I can do stuff but I recognize how great Al Dimeola and the like are.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Apr 9, 2010 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

point taken

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Poster: vapors Date: Apr 9, 2010 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

virtuoso
1. A musician with masterly ability, technique, or personal style.
2. A person with masterly skill or technique in the arts.
3. A person with a strong interest in the fine arts, especially in antiquities.
4. Archaic. A very learned person.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 9, 2010 3:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

A virtuoso is his own reward.

Leo Kottke - (who, although probably too modest to accept the accolade, is certainly deserving of it)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

oh yeah Kottke is amazing. I didn't realize until finally seeing him years back that he's not just technically brilliant but has an incredible dry wit too

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

I've never been lucky enough to see Kottke perform live (best chance I had I decided to go see Philip Glass instead - shoot me now) but I've listened to enough live recordings to realise what a great performer he is. He's definitely one of my top five guitarists, and it's very hard indeed to think of anyone better than him.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 9, 2010 9:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

Leo has been a fav for going on 40 yrs now...as I have babbled on about here before. I may have misinterpreted JOTS, but I do think of him as technically proficient, to the extreme...his style is such that it may be hard to compare with others, and I do agree there are other "great acoustic" players that leave me cold (maybe they are MORE proficient than Leo, and that's what JOTS meant, but I am not sure they are--just faster, which to me isn't the only part of the equation; note production is one, timing--and gaps--another, etc., etc.). Anyhow, love seeing him live--and his many recordings do the live shows justice, I think, so don't feel too bad about it (I don't think his kind of playing is the "you had to SEE him doing it!!").

I will say that watching JBruce (picture Johnny rolling his eyes!) do what he does with the bass (movies and such) with CREAM still just leaves me in awe...I've been going thru the many recordings (well, the few--30 or so) of them live in the US in 67-68 the past two weeks, and some of the sounds he makes, with perfect timing, and speed (but that's never what's impressive to me with him), to complement GBak & EC, are just jaw dropping...

I know I talk about CREAM way too much at this DEAD Forum, but having always had them in my top five groups, I am surprising myself at finding out just how much better they might have been than I was giving them the credit for...(I know, I know--no need for the others here that happen to read this to write in on them being an over-rated "super group"...I am too far gone at this point; you'd have a better chance of getting me to listen to a 95 DEAD show!).

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

that kind of thing tens to bore me live if it's all instrumental BUT Kottke is anything but boring. He really entertains in every way

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 9, 2010 3:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

did I use it wrong? You understand my point though?

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Poster: vapors Date: Apr 9, 2010 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

My entrance here was a reaction to your statements regarding Jerry, and the definitions seemed to fit him well, as I had thought all along. I truly mean no offense John and am glad to have new recognition of Peter. I have seen and enjoyed the recorded works Jorma many times, but am not familiar with his brother. Until today anyway. Brings back a similar wondering I had at one time regarding James Taylor and his brother Livingston.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

Now I have to say, in all honesty, that much though I enjoy the music of James Taylor, Livingston Taylor has never passed across what passes for my consciousness these days. Funny what gaps there are in a person's knowledge. In your estimation, is he worthy of lending an ear to?

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Poster: vapors Date: Apr 9, 2010 5:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

James has probably reached more hearts and pocketbooks in this world than Jorma, but here we are perhaps a bit more savvy to the good stuff with ties to the Grateful Dead. I have always loved JT – seeing him in Sarotoga (and then John Denver) while working at summer camp in 1974 was my first concert experience.

At one time I had Livingston’s first lp – the cover was him stepping out of a box car and came out in 1970 (I just checked) – and he sounded just like James. The things that make a success in the music industry are difficult for me to fully grasp and I'm sure there are countless examples that parallel the Kaukonens’. In my attempt to recover from storming in against the virtuoso verbiage, Livingston was the first to come to mind. JT has/had four siblings all of whom are recorded musicians – Kate and Livingston are probably the next best known.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

maybe I need to use another word? I heard an interview with Jerry saying how boring he thought Return to Forever and that stuff was and how music stores are filled with all these guys with great licks but nothing to say. He goes on to say the curse of the musician is being able to get along with other musicians. That was sort of along the lines of what I meant about Jerry. And to me his brilliance is being able to weave in and out and knowing where to be and not to be rather than techinical note playing ability ( not that he was any slouch by any means of course )

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 9, 2010 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

Hi John - sorry I'm a little late to the party to lend my support. You and I have talked before, on and off forum, about Peter Kaukonen so you know very well the high regard I have for his musicianship. I was just listening again to the, so far as I know, only recording of him on the archive (tracks 9 to 13 for anyone who wants to take a listen)

http://www.archive.org/details/JStarship2006-08-12Schoeps

To me, he sounds like Jorma on steroids. As far as I'm concerned, technically he's the better brother. But for heart and soul, which I think maybe was syw's point, Jorma edges it. And maybe that's why Peter didn't get to be as big as he might have been - he showed us his talent, but he didn't show us his heart.

And so far as your point goes about being left cold by the soulless virtuosos (or virtusosi as Tell will no doubt insist) I absolutely agree with you. No point in playing 200 notes a minute if 198 of them are shit.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Apr 9, 2010 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

I think that second paragraph pretty much sums up my point and answers the original question: "how the hell did this guy never make it big?"

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Poster: cush212 Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

You speakin' at me dude???

Just kidding, hope you are well. Stop by the bar if you're up that late (see the Grok tonight thread) I will try to drop in around 5 coast time...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Apr 9, 2010 4:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: how the hell did this guy never make it big?

Actually I was addressing Alaskan John (with an 'h'), not SoCal Jon without, you egomaniac. It's not all about you, y'know! Saw you were around and was about to say hi as it happens. Hope all is going well with you - you still in San Diego? I'm about to head off beyond internet access for a week. I can do with the break.

Anyway, as I told Senator McCarthy, I have not now nor at any time grokked, nor have I encouraged other people to grok. And I have no further statement to make at this time.

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